Revived (random topics)

Hey everyone, like a thread on LO I am alive again! (except this is 3 weeks, not 3 years) The reason for my absence is that I got my hands on a StarCraft 2 Beta key, which has pretty much taken up all of my computer time. Now that the beta is down I am posting. If you guys are interested I could do some posts on SC2 (I play Terran in platinum league).

So to do a quick update, my Necrons didn't do as well as I was expecting at the ConQuest GT. I had one win, two losses and two draws. One of my draws should have been a win, but we didn't finish the game and I made a really stupid mistake. All of my games were very close though. I took pictures but I still need to download the software to upload my pictures :(, but it will happen eventually (you finally get to see what my Necrons look like). Anyways, I came within 3 points of best sports using the totally fair system of 1-10 subjective scoring.

I want to start a new army (and my Orks aren't even done yet XD).

This time I want to have an actually competitive army though, and I want it to stay competitive for a few years while my Necrons are being updated. Recently a friend of mine finished his Flesh Tearers army, and it looked awesome. I loved the gritty, dirty Space Marine feel. So without further ado, here is the cheesy ass Space Wolves list I came up with.

HQ
[110] Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf, Chooser of the Slain

Elites
[125] Dreadnought w/ 2 TL Autocannons
[125] Dreadnought w/ 2 TL Autocannons

Troops
[160] 5 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun + Razorback w/ Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun, Dozer Blade
[160] 5 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun + Razorback w/ Lascannon, TL Plasma Gun, Dozer Blade
[130] 5 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun + Rhino w/ Hunter-Killer Missile, Dozer Blade

Fast Attack
[90] Land Speeder Typhoon
[90] Land Speeder Typhoon
[90] Land Speeder Typhoon

Heavy Support
[140] 6 Long Fangs w/ 5 Missile Launchers
[140] 6 Long Fangs w/ 5 Missile Launchers
[140] 6 Long Fangs w/ 5 Missile Launchers

Total: 1500 Points

It seems rock solid as far as I can tell. The Priest sits inside the rhino and fires Living Lightning out the hatch. The dozer blades and HK Missile were thrown on with extra points I had (dozer blades can be lifesavers if you have extra points). So the alpha strike of this list is rediculous with:

•  9-14 Str7 shots
• 2 Str9 shots
• 22 Str8 shots (or small blast templates)

Tell me what you guys think. Also I have a buddy who is selling his IG army, so I might get in on that (or should I just finish my fucking Orks).

Conquest GT & 2000 pts Necrons list!

Okay so two pieces of news to start off with.

1) I have decided to take my Necrons to both summer GTs. If I'm going to convince people that Necrons can win, I have to practice what I preach. I'll still be working on my Orks though.

2) I have found the Conquest GT rules. I was pleasantly surprised that there is no Comp and it's 2000 points (both of these are unusual for my area). Rules can be found here. Battle is worth 100, sports is worth 55 and appearance is worth 50.

So that means I have to make a 2000 point Necron list, a points value that I'm not familiar with. My 1500 and 1750 lists are already set in stone, but at 2000 there are several different ways I could go. I've decided to run a more MSU-style list using Immortals (conversion time) and Warp Spyders. Here's what I'm going to be playtesting for now.

HQ
[300] The Deceiver

Elites
[168] 6 Immortals
[168] 6 Immortals

Troops
[180] 10 Warriors
[180] 10 Warriors

Fast Attack
[150] 3 Destroyers
[150] 3 Destroyers
[120] 10 Scarab Swarms

Heavy Support
[235] Monolith
[235] Monolith
[110] 2 Tomb Spyders

Total: 1996 Points

Possible Reconfiguration of my Ork List

This was my previous 1500 Ork list that I was planning to bring to the summer GTs:

HQ
[103] Big Mek w/ Shokk Attack Gun, Bosspole, Ammo Runt
[103] Big Mek w/ Shokk Attack Gun, Bosspole, Ammo Runt

Elites
[225] 15 Lootas
[225] 15 Lootas

Troops
[170] 20 Ork Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[170] 20 Ork Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[49] 13 Gretchin + Runtherd
[49] 13 Gretchin + Runtherd

Heavy Support
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas

Total: 1499 Points

This is my revised list:

HQ
[225] Ghazhkull Thrakka

Elite
[225] 15 Lootas
[225] 15 Lootas

Troops
[190] 25 Boyz w/ Sluggas & Choppas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[190] 25 Boyz w/ Sluggas & Choppas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, Bosspole
[40] 10 Gretchin + Runtherd

Heavy Support
[135] 3 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas

Total: 1500 Points


The new list gets rid of the Shokk Attack Guns (they were useless for me) and adds more assault capability with Ghazzie and the large choppa boy squads. The new list has better anti-mech because of Ghazhkull, while still retaining the anti-infantry cheesiness of the Grotzookas. By the way, 'zookas are amazing. They absolutely slaughter any type of infantry, and with STR6 and multiple shots they make rhinos very uncomfortable.

So I'm gonna be testing this version of the list out and I'll see how it goes. I've played it twice so far with one win and one draw. Opinions?

My 1750 Necron List

I tend to reference my Necrons a lot when I'm writing, here it is just so everyone knows what it is.

HQ
[300] The Deceiver

Troops
[180] 10 Warriors
[180] 10 Warriors

Fast Attack
[250] 5 Destroyers
[250] 5 Destroyers
[120] 10 Scarab Swarms

Heavy Support
[235] Monolith
[235] Monolith

Total: 1750 Points

Basic tactics are the monoliths and C'tan advance to kill things, while the warriors and destroyers stay back and shoot at anything that needs to be softened up before the C'tan roflpwns it. Scarabs are my main bubblewrap. Monoliths are mainly anti-tank but they also block assaulters or LOS, portal my warriors out of close combat or onto objectives.

FWIW, I have 30 models so I Phase Out when I have 7 models left, but in ~30 games with this list I've only Phased Out once against "Leafblower" IG when they got first turn. I've come close many times, but that was the only actual phase out. My most recent tournament I played against triple-Land Raider SM, which I won by a Massacre victory; then dual-Lash + oblits, which I won by another Massacre, then a Minor Loss to Mech IG.

I intend to post pictures soon, after I fix the Deciever's broken arm and head.

The Importance of the Army List

As interwebz players, we have all seen countless army lists and the discussions which revolve around them. I would actually say that I see more discussion of army lists than tactics. This is interesting because, for the most part, I would say tactics are much more influential in the outcome of a game than lists are. I don't like to toot my own horn, but I do very well in local tournaments with my Necrons against tough lists. Furthermore, I rarely come away from a game thinking I played perfectly but I lost solely because I was playing Necrons.

Yet, we still discuss army lists much more than tactics. Why is that? The answer is quite simple: it's easier to talk about army lists than it is to talk about tactics. With army lists, you have the list written out in front of you, and you have your codex which tells you your alternative options. There is no abstract thinking required. Now, I'm not saying building good lists is easier than playing, I'm saying they are easier to discuss. Tactics, on the other hand, require abstract thought in order to talk about. You need to be able to imagine and visualize the models on the table, the distance between units, and the terrain. This can be very difficult if there are no pictures provided, especially when you get into complex situations.

I like to think of the player and army list as a contruction worker and his tool kit. Take Mike Holmes from the TV show Holmes on Homes (if you haven't seen it Mike Holmes is a beast at renovation) for instance. Now let's say someone gave me a brand new, top-quality kit of tools, and gave Mike Holmes an old crappy one. I'm sure Mike Holmes could still do any renovation job ten times better than I could. This is because he knows how to use what he has to build something.

But where am I going with this? Think of Necrons as the old crappy tool kit, and Mech IG as the brand new one. They both have similar tools (anti-tank, anti-infantry, counter-assault etc.) but the IG list's tools are newer and better. However, a good player will make due with what he has, and the difference between the IG list and the Necrons is actually very small IMO (maybe 10-15% in power).

There is one big exception to this, however. That is if the list is entirely lacking in one area, or it has so little that what it has can be killed very easily. Let's say it has no anti-tank, then that makes a huge difference. Again, going back to the tool kit metaphor, if you give Mike Holmes a tool kit but you don't give him any nails, he won't be able to build much, no matter how skilled he is. Similarly, if he doesn't have any spare tools and one of them breaks (killed by your opponent in 40k terms), he won't be able to do what that tool did.

Every codex in the game is able to build a list with enough tools to compete. Some have very few tools for certain jobs, and some have only one good set of tools (Dark Eldar). Some have extra 'bonus' tools (psychic hoods, RoW etc.) but in the end I think too much emphasis is put on the army list. Some people build a list and don't playtest and then go to a tournament expecting to win with it. Then they get owned. This happened a lot at Adepticon with people using the SW Razorback spam list. Ignoring the fact that that list is not nearly as good in real games as it is on paper, people just took it without practicing and tweaking their list (it's always a good idea to try out different things in lists), and they got destroyed as a result.

So what do you guys think? Am I just crazy and the army list is more important than I believe? Does it depend a lot on luck? Also, do you have experiences of you or others using lists that everyone thinks is gonna get smashed and then does really well?

1500 Shooty Orks GT List

HQ
[103] Big Mek w/ Shokk Attack Gun, Bosspole, Ammo Runt
[103] Big Mek w/ Shokk Attack Gun, Bosspole, Ammo Runt

Elites
[225] 15 Lootas
[225] 15 Lootas

Troops
[170] 20 Ork Boyz w/ Shootas, 2 Big Shootas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, BP
[170] 20 Ork Boyz w/ Shootas, 2 Big Shootas; Nob w/ Power Klaw, BP
[49] 13 Gretchin + Runtherd
[49] 13 Gretchin + Runtherd

Heavy Support
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas
[135] 3 Killa Kanz w/ Grotzookas

Total: 1499 Points

SAG Meks attach to the grotz. Boyz run in front of my killa kans to give them cover, while some of the boyz stay behind the kans so they also get cover. The list is very shooty and resilient, but slow. I haven't played it a lot, but in the games I have played with it I have been very successful. I will have a lot of time to practice though because the GTs are in the summer.

When the deffrolla FAQ came out, the interwebz went wild, saying assault Orks are awesome now and much better than shooty orks. I still think assault orks are a decent army at best, but shooty Orks are actually very powerful at low points levels because they have a lot of cheap, resilient units.

Thoughts?

1250 Necrons -- Battle Missions Tourney on Saturday

I was originally going to bring my Orks, but I didn't finish my battlewagon conversion, so Necrons it is. My list is pretty bad, as Necrons can't really make anything good at below 1750. Here it is anyway:

List A


HQ
[300] The Deceiver

Troops
[180] 10 Necron Warriors
[180] 10 Necron Warriors

Fast Attack
[150] 3 Destroyers
[150] 3 Destroyers
[48] 4 Scarab Swarms

Heavy Support
[235] Monolith

Total: 1243 Points

List B

HQ
[300] The Deceiver

Troops
[180] 10 Necron Warriors
[180] 10 Necron Warriors

Fast Attack
[250] 5 Destroyers
[250] 5 Destroyers
[84] 7 Scarab Swarms


Total: 1244 Points


I'm not too happy with it, but it'll have to do. I'll be taking pictures.