One thing I think we will be seeing a lot of is the Baal Predator flamer rush. The new Baal has Fast and Scout, meaning it can move 18" before the game even begins. If the BA player has first turn, he can move up to 30" and then fire his flamers on turn 1. He will need to use other units to bust transports, but the codex has plenty of anti-mech so this isn't a problem.
My friends and I are currently working on figuring out strong counters to the Baal rush. The fact is, you need to sacrifice a unit if you want to stop the Baals from flaming your important stuff. Infiltrators are great for this. Armies like Tau for example are not going to have much problems because they can line up Kroot and keep the Baals 12" away. This essentially limits their scout move to 6 inches, if you line up as far forward as possible. Spreading out is important because it reduces the amount of models hit by the flamers, and increases the buffer zone for the scout moves.
The Blood Angels codex is very flexible. They are able to create an army that plays very similar to mech Eldar, or they can play like vanilla marines with cool additional units like the Sanguinary Guard. Blood Angels are one of my favorite SM chapters so I'm glad to see them having success.
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention is that the Baal rush reminds me of the Bane Wolf rush, where people used Creed to scout the Bane Wolves forward and then flame enemy infantry on turn 1. If you have had this tactic tried on you then you know what it looks like. However, the Baal rush is stronger for 2 reasons:
a) The BA can have 3 Baals in different units.
b) Baals are AV13.
I think this will become a textbook tactic for BA. Its certainly very strong versus horde. I used to run Baals with TLAC then switched back over to LRCs then finally back to landraiders. Yes I have a closest full of landraiders. If BA do indeed have have access to cheaper landraiders then I see landraider rush making a really strong push. It's all about keeping cheap melta units out of your grill.
ReplyDeleteAnyways fast flamestorm cannons with heavy flamer sponsons could certainly become quite vogue.
G
Upon considering it a bit more, I think they will be overshadowed by the Stormraven Gunships. Ya gotta assume they'll be popular. Apparently GW is gonna release the Stormraven model at the same time as the Daemonhunters or Inquisition codex. I assume that'll be after DE.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I think the Baal-rush-with-flamer is going to be an effective tactic, long-term.
ReplyDeleteIt will work for awhile, or against an infantry heavy list, but you've got to assume the better armies will be in their rides, or blocking their meaty-parts with their rides - that kind of thing. For that, the BA player has thrown his Baal into Melta range and out of support of his other units.
Then again, I've not seen the new 'Dex, so I could be wrong!
Good luck with your blog, mate. I'm throwing a link up for you on mine. (Maybe you'll get 2 of my 3 readers... just don't take my Mom...)
Brent
Its great to see another discussion blog out there. Keep the thought food coming!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sold on the burny Baals or Stormravens. Unlike Hellhounds, Baals can't bring a seconday role (multi-melta) and SM armies don't have the kind of versatile and durable armor that let's IG bring specialized tanks.
ReplyDeleteStormravens are a glorifed Valkyrie, 200 points for an AV12 skimmer. 3 Fully loaded Ravens will end up costing well over 1000 points. With so much AV12 saturation from IG, Eldar and Tau I don't think it'll be unfeasible for most armies to be capable of destroying/disabling 3 AV12 vehicles in 1-2 turns. Once they go, it's GG for BA. It's a shame, the model is so coo-no wait, GW's stupid.
Armor rush for BA will be nasty though.
I think the rest of the BA codex has enough anti-mech that the Baal's lack of verstality won't be too big of a problem. A multi-melta would be nice for sure though. Against foot armies, if BA goes first... gg.
ReplyDeletebut how many foot armies do you really see these days? I know at least in my area there arent that many and even the lists that do have some foot troops are in small numbers or pretty insignificant to the functionality of their army that me letting a 100+ point tank get melta'd to kill them is a bad trade off for me.
ReplyDeleteI am seeing lots of Tyranid horde armies... Even the codex was something not that well received on the Internet by the general public it seems to be quite popular. The flamestorm cannon is awesome versus gaunt walls as the S6 ignores FNP granted by the closeby Tervigon(s). A lot of people are also trying their hand at IG with large blobs of guardsmen. Also there are still some people playing foot slogging orks with a kan wall for hte bubble wrap.
ReplyDeleteHeavy mech is not my style for BA but I think it might become a popular net list. The biggest problem I see with flaming Baals is if they are close enough to the enemy to drop the templates then they are in melta/charge range... Basically one shot wonders. AV13 is awesome versus most firepower though and as such I prefer the classic TLAC/HB variant of the Baal. They can lay down a lot of shots and the rending can take down landraiders more reliably than lascannons. The inclusion of the Baal to FA means you can field more landraider Crusaders/landraiders which combined is pretty darn sick. Two landraiders and three TLAC/HB Baals is definitely a solid firebase while still allowing a good number of points left over for the choppy elements.
Alex i would love to see your thoughts here on a comparison of the various mechanized power armor lists (SM, SW & BA). these lists seem to be quite popular on the Internet and typically consist of lots of RZB units. I'm not that terribly impressed them though and have tabled a few with my Khorne daemon list.
G
Sure, I can do that. I play the footslogging Orks as you described, and they recently got trashed by a 6-predator list. My opponent was using the TLAC/heavy bolter preds and it worked well for him. I think he had 10 vehicles on the table total at 1500. He could've had more too. Scary stuff.
ReplyDeleteI still think mech IG is top dog though.
It's all about the AssCann Baal for me. My basis is the LandRaider Crusader vs. Redeemer. The range just always has made the difference over the flame template. And the Baal is side AV 11. I think Baals O' Fire will turn out to be an "on paper thing".
ReplyDelete